Current TV, “The Young Turks,”  host Cenk Uyger, December 13, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkvRhyMEVr4 

Abramoff:  “…The problem is there’s a system out there, where somebody who like I was can get out there and use money and use contributions and use influence and out do the average guy who hasn’t a chance against somebody like I was.”

Uyger: “Jack, aren’t they doing it today. If you could put in $80 million and get back $6 billion, wouldn’t any rational business person say, ‘let me go buy a senator, let me go buy a congressperson, in fact let me go buy the whole congress,’ because it’s the best bang for your buck.”

Abramoff: “That’s exactly right. It’s the best bang for your buck. It’s the best return. Of course they’re doing it today. The problem is what they’re doing is considered legal…”

 Uyger: “So talk to me about what is legal today, but allows a lobbyist like yourself, when you used to be a lobbyist, to be able to influence the congress members so thoroughly.”

Abramoff: “Ok, I’ll give you an example, 2 things. I … couldn’t take a congressman to lunch to buy him a hamburger for $25. It’s Washington after all, hamburgers cost $25.  I couldn’t do that. But if I declared that lunch a fund raising event, and I pulled out of my jacket 5 checks for $5,000 and handed it to him, and gave it to him and said ‘this is now a fundraiser,’ you can have your hamburger and talk about the same thing.  That’s the kind of loophole that’s built into the law, and that’s legal today.”